5E Announced (For real this time)

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:10 pm

I'm still curious Lago -- have you played (4E) D&D Encounters? If so, what was your experience like?

I've played several 4E D&D modules (and read a few more) and I can give you my opinion on some of them. But D&D Encounters specifically? No. Unless that promotional crap in the EPG/FRPG books count -- which is actually what I have in mind with minor tweaks.

Unless D&D Encounters were substantially more railroady than I envisioned, though, I mean even more railroady than that. I'm not even talking 16-bit jRPG railroading, because those have sidequests and shit and you actually have to put in a bit of effort to go to your next destination.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:36 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Unless D&D Encounters were substantially more railroady than I envisioned, though, I mean even more railroady than that. I'm not even talking 16-bit jRPG railroading, because those have sidequests and shit and you actually have to put in a bit of effort to go to your next destination.

I'm not expert, but my understanding is that each week you have a new map location with one or more monsters in it. You have some beginning fluff to read through, you beat up the monster(s) and then you have some end fluff. It's literally one encounter (hence the name). Repeat for N weeks (according to this post, Season 3 comprised 5 chapters, with each chapter being 4 weeks long).

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:07 pm

hogarth wrote:http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/bl ... d_treasure

Ugh. I hate morons who think that useful advice is bad, on the grounds that they might want to ignore said useful advice.

some people just dont care for some stupid CR system...why i voted it a 1.

there is a great divide between gamist and simulationist in the D&D world, and why 4th failed for a populace, and even 3rd failed for another. those people wanting to simulate an organic playstyle dont want the metagame to show itself in the game. 1e had this kind of association but it was hidden because of the variety of treasure types that made it seem more organic, even when using random treasure.

DM freedom to present what he or she wants.

this one is vital for organic play. why does a level 10 party run across a village of goblins? because the goblins have always lived in that location. everything isnt there for PCs to fight, nor does everything always have to be a threat to the PCs so they can gain XP from it (see 3.x bag of rats)

Random monsters and treasures.

this needs to happen so when a DM needs to do something on the fly to keep playing for a bit they dont have to stop the game to write some new part for it.

Players: We want to check out the Dungeon of Dishwater
DM: (crap i dont have anything in that yet just the rooms. RANDOM MONsTERS AND TREASURE!)

DM: you arrive at the dungeon and seems if has had heavily traffic at the entrance like many have been through recently. you cannot make out any of the tracks because there are just too many.

Players can balance risk versus reward.

this got a 2 from me because it is too simple a statement. yes the players decide if they want to take the risk, but not what reward they get. most times they have NO idea what the reward will be, unless they are on a quest and doing it for the quest pay. the other time is rumor about ancient artifact or a local myth that says THING is in PLACE. then they know the assumed reward, and maybe the risk if myth or legend provided it. (Minotaurs cave have a ball of gold thread and the slain remnants of the fallen victims of the minotaur).

the problem lies when:

PCs: We want to go fight some goblins and get a +1 sword
PCs: We want there to be a magic rapier in the treasure cause you owe it to us because we created our character with a narrow concept and you let us play that concept.

these present NOTHING organic.

acceptable method of that specific item wish:

PCs: i wish i had a magical rapier
DM: when not have one forger if you can find a blacksmith

~begin personal quest for item~ (no telling who can do it, where they are, or what you need to make it...VERY many potential risks or could be as easy as pie.)

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:31 pm

this one is vital for organic play. why does a level 10 party run across a village of goblins? because the goblins have always lived in that location. everything isnt there for PCs to fight, nor does everything always have to be a threat to the PCs so they can gain XP from it (see 3.x bag of rats)

The bold has nothing to do with XP, it has to do with a feat. You would know that if you read the CR system.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:38 pm

Leress wrote:
this one is vital for organic play. why does a level 10 party run across a village of goblins? because the goblins have always lived in that location. everything isnt there for PCs to fight, nor does everything always have to be a threat to the PCs so they can gain XP from it (see 3.x bag of rats)
The bold has nothing to do with XP, it has to do with a feat. You would know that if you read the CR system.

it was also anticipated BEFORE whirlwind attack and such, that 3rd would continue the XP form 2nd (or what people thought XP from 2nd was), where you could have a bag of rats to kill to get that extra 1 XP to gain the next level.

i cant find where it was discussed, its just coincidence that the whirlwind attack came and rats were chosen, or rats were chosen BECAUSE they were already in people heads due to the discussion prior.

people that did not play 2nd inferred that XP wa always given, not that it should pose a threat because they didnt read 2nd or assumed stuff that was in the DMG or of past editions DMGs and left out.

2nd and 3rd have the same "threat" requirement for XP in the end.
the fact still remains that an organic system wouldnt have the world where the only thing you face is "level appropriate" because what really is the point of levels if the world levels with the PCs so that goblins are always a threat?

a sesne of accomplishment is met when the PCs feel that they are superior because the goblins no longer really threaten them, not jsut because they heard the ~DING~ of a new level.

maybe the rats things was Belkar from OotS now that i think about it.. and it is based on 3.x...i will see if i can find it in relation to XP not just the whirlwind attack stuff.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:48 pm

Bloody hell, it wasn't even the Whirlwind feat, it was the Cleave feat.

Here is the 3.x Xp chart

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_DMG_XPFinal.asp

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:57 pm

And the 1xp meme is "boil an anthill".

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:04 pm

thanks fectin, i had them confused then, but knew one existed.

Leress wrote:Bloody hell, it wasn't even the Whirlwind feat, it was the Cleave feat.

Here is the 3.x Xp chart

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_DMG_XPFinal.asp

http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Bag_of_rats

try it was BOTH feats....

rats give more targets from the whirlwind attack, then Great Cleave lets you use those attacks form the dead rats onto your REAL target rather than jsut against the target getting 2, but however many rats were within range of the whirlwind attack.

BLOODY HELL, even i used this shit when i played 3rd.

i think it is why whirlwind attack was errata'd from 3.0 to 3.5... "use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats,"

but i dont have access to 3.0 books anymore to check.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:11 pm

You played 3rd once, as a wizard. Why did you have whirlwind attack and great cleave as a wizard?

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:15 pm

fectin wrote:You played 3rd once, as a wizard. Why did you have whirlwind attack and great cleave as a wizard?

i sat in often with pregens. i played MY OWN character for more than a one-shot as a githzerai monk (in return to white plume mountain). (and a few weeks as a kender)

wizard, paladin, barbarian, and others were filling in for absent players.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:23 pm

Only a fool would set that many feats on fire trying to get Whirlwind, since you would have to be a 6th level fighter to even pull off that combination.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:28 pm

So, to be clear, you did play real dnd for an extended campaign, but it was as a 20th level human monk who had set all of his fears on fire.

That might explain why you think there are no options in 3e.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:50 pm

To just point out the thing you guys just missed which proves Shadzar just picks up vague mentions of stuff from this forum to fuel his fake trolling with...

shadzar wrote:(and a few weeks as a kender)

Shadzar. 100% insane troll. STOP TALKING TO THIS TROLL YOU ASSES.

You only bring his next "Whut is a Whut?" thread EVER CLOSER.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:57 pm

hogarth wrote:I'm not expert, but my understanding is that each week you have a new map location with one or more monsters in it. You have some beginning fluff to read through, you beat up the monster(s) and then you have some end fluff. It's literally one encounter (hence the name). Repeat for N weeks (according to this post, Season 3 comprised 5 chapters, with each chapter being 4 weeks long).

That's not exactly what I had in mind. Maybe for a one-shot, but, the idea of having chapters or seasons at all is suspect and going that long is a non-starter.

I think where most modules except for the really expertly written ones end up failing or being overlooked is because DMs would rather use their own material. Even if they're using someone else's campaign setting. I'm not saying that there isn't a market for '12+ discrete but linked 60 minute encounters', but I think that something that would be transparent with the generic potboiler Saturday Night campaign would sell better.

Remember that a lot (most?) games go on for months and oftentimes a group dissolves before it even gets to be that long. If your add-on needs to wait until the end of what a group is currently doing before it can be used, it might never get used. Which depresses sales.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:36 pm

fectin wrote:So, to be clear, you did play real dnd for an extended campaign, but it was as a 20th level human monk who had set all of his fears on fire.

That might explain why you think there are no options in 3e.

githzerai does this help you read the race?

i dont know WHAT sit-in characters i played or pregens, since they were one shots. didnt care, i was helping fill seats for "dinner D&D" that came with a meal so the party needed filling or people would want their moeny back if the game couldnt be played.

@PL the kender only lasted a few weeks, because i tore the DMs railroad from hell campaign (effectively the One Ring MUST go to Mt Doom) a new asshole when i destroyed his carefully laid tracks and he threw a hissy fit and blew up the world.

@Leress: i didnt create the whirlwind attack character.. just one of the ones i filled in for an absent player...so figure out who in the world that was and complain to them about their creation.